News: Most Americans view Iraq war as a mistake.
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Posted by Marc on June 25, 2004 at 11:09:12:
Again, I was ahead of my time on this. As a white, middle class male, I took a lot of heat for breaking from the Republican Party. Let's face it: it's almost treasonous to break from your demographic group.
I'd love to find the exact text of Rumsfeld looking out at skeptical reporters, and then making one of his famous, arrogant, over-simplified statements: "Look, the Eastern bloc countries were able to form democracies within six months. I see no reason why it should be any different for Iraq."
Someone ought to loosen up his tie. I think it's cutting off the oxygen to his already addled brain.
Re: News: Most Americans view Iraq war as a mistake.
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Posted by Doug W on June 25, 2004 at 18:25:54:
In Reply to: News: Most Americans view Iraq war as a mistake. posted by Marc on June 25, 2004 at 11:09:12:
If treason refers to betrayal of country, it cannot be treasonous to break from your demographic group unless the group leans Republican. If you were a college professor and you supported the president's policies you would be breaking from your demographic group but you would be a fine patriot! Ha ha! Of course, that poor professor would walk the plank the same as any Benedict Arnold.
As for the poll, to what do you attribute the radical shift? Are people reading and studying the history of Islamo-fascism, the Middle East, Saddam's Iraq and al Qaeda through books by the experts, intelligence digests like Jane's and Foreign Affairs, the words of the freaks themselves translated by MEMRI or the tedious government reports outlining the threat from this filth? Or are they plunked down in front of the TV absorbing the relentless pounding of negativism from the treasonous, demoncrat blamestream media and reading the New York Slimes?
Maybe they are just getting smarter through osmosis.
It's gotta' be one of the three. Which do you think it is?
Congratulations that the masses have finally caught up to your prescient views!
You deserved the 500 since I would not have arrived at building 1 for another hour if you hadn't grabbed me. Paper! I almost threw paper! Damn.
Re: News: Most Americans view Iraq war as a mistake.
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Posted by Doug on June 25, 2004 at 11:59:21:
In Reply to: News: Most Americans view Iraq war as a mistake. posted by Marc on June 25, 2004 at 11:09:12:
As far as I'm concerned - I just want my Brother to come home.. A sentimate shared by thousands of families across the USA about their loved ones..
I think he's there for a lot of stupid and madeup reasons... At first I supported the "war" but now I realize we were lied to..
We are no safer because we invaded Iraq...
Re: News: Most Americans view Iraq war as a mistake.
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Posted by Marc on June 25, 2004 at 12:14:24:
In Reply to: Re: News: Most Americans view Iraq war as a mistake. posted by Doug on June 25, 2004 at 11:59:21:
Doug, thank you for sharing.
You see, folks, the way to recovery is to acknowledge your mistake and correct it.
***
There's an old saying that "Happiness and vanity are incompatible." If we modify it to, "Happiness and intellectual vanity are incompatible," we can see much clearer what the problem is. We have a lot of educated baby boomers who are too intellectually vain (because of their education and wealth, which is simply more affirmation of their brilliance) to admit that they were wrong.
Indeed, what we have here are a lot of baby boomers who moved to the Republican party because their economic needs and interests shifted. They are now loathe to admit that the party they've embraced and helped create has become a caricature of itself. For instance, we keep hearing about Reagan, but Reagan was the guy who was smiling and posing with a Soviet dictator (a.k.a. Mikhael Gorbachov). And it wasn't the nuclear missiles that Reagan aimed at the Soviet Union that freed the Eastern bloc countries, but Gorbachov's unwillingness to use force to stop their populations from over-turning their governments, which were dependent on Soviet forces to protect them.
Reagan was far more pragmatic than these ideologues, Lenin-like characters that are in the White House. This is not the party of Reagan; this is the party of the Bolsheviks.
Re: News: Most Americans view Iraq war as a mistake.
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Posted by Doug on June 25, 2004 at 14:32:25:
In Reply to: Re: News: Most Americans view Iraq war as a mistake. posted by Marc on June 25, 2004 at 12:14:24:
Tnaks Marc...
-----------------
I don't think I made a mistake by originally supporting the was per say....
I just thought it was a lot worse than it was made out to be... My mistake was
getting caught up in the revenge and anger that 911 brought on me...
Even the GI's I spoke to returning from Iraq at my old
job at Ft Dix/ Walter Reed felt the same way.. When you talk to a medic that
saw our soldiers get killed - saying this is all about oil it really hits
home...
Where's this crap going to end?? There's a few countries that are a threat to us... Are we going to invade each and every one of them????
As far as the foriegn fighters in Iraq.... Man that really makes me mad... If it wasnt for us - those A-holes wouldn't be there bombing inocent women and children... The ones I bought into protecting when this whole thing came down...
I used to say "They used weapons of mass distruction on
their own people..."
Yeah.... And now terrorists are flooding into the country to kill anything US...
And taking out those very people we want to protect that happen to be in the
line of fire...
sorry... I had a couple of beers at lunch.... I'm ranting...
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Posted by Doug W on June 25, 2004 at 23:00:17:
In Reply to: Re: News: Most Americans view Iraq war as a mistake. posted by Doug on June 25, 2004 at 14:32:25:
From "The Connection" by Stephen Hayes:*
As distraught relatives searched for missing loved ones near Ground Zero, the Iraqi regime openly celebrated. To the strains of triumphant, nationalistic music, Iraq's state-run television network replayed the spectacular images of the two airplanes crashing into the World Trade center. And, as the twin Towers collapsed, the opening lyrics of one song-"Down With America"-took on a grim literal meaning. One Iraqi government newspaper declared: "The great power that once sowed terror throughout the world was yesterday terrified, thrown into panic and humiliated." Saddam himself said, "The American Cowboys are reaping the fruit of their crimes against humanity." This from Saddam Hussein! Crimes against humanity!
How wrong they were. They thought we were the country of the aberration; Bill Clinton – panic and humiliation! We had a new administration. Twenty seven months later, American cowboys hauled this psychopathic monster out of a hole in the ground, filthy and lice-ridden. This was witnessed by the whole Arab world that had eagerly anticipated our humiliating defeat.
Do you realize the effect this had on our enemies? The enemy that wants to hack off the head of each and every one of us? It was devastating. Our immense victory is diminished only by the vicious propaganda of the demoncrats and their complicit media in their single-minded thirst for power.
1. My prayers and thanks go to your brother. He is the warrior manning the ramparts in some foreign land so that the rest of us can go to the mall and the movies, send our children to school, get on a bus, train or plane, and drive over a bridge or through a tunnel without mortal fear. He is a true American hero.
2. Is it the 3 years without a terrorist attack that has caused you to re-consider the extent of our vulnerability? Has the media, through their desire to regain the White House for the demoncrats lulled you into somnolence? Do you think these people are not seeking a nuke and trying to figure out how to get it to New York or Washington? DO YOU REALLY THINK IT IS NOT AS BAD AS YOU FIRST THOUGHT? Do not lose your revenge and anger. Please. America must not lose sight of this enemy’s determination and capabilities.
3. Oil: Oil is the lifeblood of modern civilization. If you are not anxious to go back to the cave, you have to come to grips with the reality that oil will have some influence in our foreign policy, our national security and the wars we fight.
4. Where did you get the information that has changed your mind about this war? Was it mostly from the media (TV, New York Times etc.) and people who are so influenced? Or have you proactively sought out ALL available information at the library and on the web, from new books and foreign intelligence sources? Have you made it an obsession? I guarantee that the people who advise our administration have. And, I guarantee that they have many more sources that are unavailable to you and I.
5. Where's this crap going to end? As long as the human race exists. It’s ugly, but we can either fight evil or willingly put our heads on the block. Obviously, we cannot take out all evil on Earth at once, but this action, considering the UN resolutions, Saddam's refusal to adhere to the terms of the cease-fire from the ’91 war, the attacks on our forces enforcing the no-fly-zones, his proven ability and inclination to produce and use WMD and the wake-up call of 9/11, was a completely justifiable time and place to act. Iran, Saudi Arabia and North Korea will have to be dealt with. The time and place and methods (economic, diplomatic, military) will be determined by future events.
6. The innocent people hurt by the reaction to the war: do you have any idea of the innocents killed and tortured by Saddam? Hundreds of thousands. Do you know of ANY WAR IN HISTORY where fewer innocents have been killed? It IS war! If the people who fought WWII could have avoided the worldwide devastation and the slaughter of millions for the price that has been paid here in lives, do you think they would have taken the deal? Don’t tell me that Saddam could not compare to Hitler. Hitler failed to take over a beer hall in 1923. 15 years later he was unstoppable. And THERE WERE NO NUKES THEN. Saddam only needed one to be far more destructive immediately. All serious observers of foreign policy agree that the sanctions and UN inspections were being worn down by Saddam’s obstinacy and would have been dropped soon. The nuke program would have been quickly reactivated and aided eagerly by France and Germany. Bush would have then been excoriated by his same present detractors for doing nothing. COUNT ON IT! Especially after a Saddam Nuke went off in an American city.
7. Foreigners: Why do you think these foreigners are going there? Because they know that it is the last stand for their ideology! These are THE EXACT SAME A-HOLES who have been plotting to wreak death and havoc right here. Where do you think they would be and what do you think they would be doing otherwise? They have been diverted to Iraq by a brilliant strategy. Let’s take them out there! Better yet, let the new Iraqi government, a government friendly to the US, deal with them!
8. Can you imagine the impact our success would have on the world; the rallying of the Democracies; the fear of the tyrannies; the cowing of the Islamo-fascists; the momentum of history if only we did not have the vicious, single-minded undermining of our efforts by the opposition Party and it’s media stooges portraying disunity, lack of focus and resolve, and confusion? The world would rally to our side overwhelmingly.
When Clinton ineffectually bombed Iraq, Afghanistan and Sudan, even though it was embarrassingly obvious to all the world that this cowardly, politically motivated sociopath was acting only to distract from his own domestic scandals, the Republican loyal opposition said Clinton, “did exactly the right thing.” (Newt Gingrich); “Sooner or later, terrorists will realize that America’s differences end at the waters edge…” (Jesse helms)); the action was, “bold and appropriate.” (Alfsonse D’Amato); “The American people stand united..” (Dick Armey); President Reagan had it right; terrorists can run but they cannot hide. Hopefully this action marks the return of that sound approach.” (Steve Forbes).
Compare that to the treasonous rantings of Kennedy, Gore, Dean, Kerry et al. Find any similar undermining of foreign policy in time of war by any Republican for political advantage, ever.
It’s time to support the policies of our leaders and our troops in this critical war. I have no problem with reasoned, critical analysis, but I do have a huge problem with the constant sniping and momoqing of traitorous politicians and the partisan media who are influencing public opinion with their unremitting, vicious attacks on the administration and their blatantly, slanted coverage of this effort. Please tune out this debilitating media negativism, get “The Connection” from the library (a 2 hour read), and never ever forget the images of 9/11 and Nick Berg. This is the fate the enemy holds for all of us and it is real and deadly serious.
9. Sorry, I’ve had a few myself!
* Introduction X1X